was it ever stated that ssj gotenks pre is stronger than ssj3 goku?

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was it ever stated that ssj gotenks pre is stronger than ssj3 goku?
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 18 2014, 04:23 PM (976 Views)
+ Pointer	Jan 18 2014, 04:23 PM Post #1
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	???



EMIYA	Jan 18 2014, 04:24 PM Post #2
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	Goku tells Piccolo that Boo seemed happy that an opponent even stronger than him (Goku) would be facing him. Give me a moment and I'll get the direct quote. Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P9.3 Piccolo: “If that bastard felt like it, he could wipe out the entire Earth, up here included, in the blink of an eye…!” Goku: “It’s alright, I don’t think he’ll take out the Earth. After all, I told him that in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him, and he seemed happy…” Edited by EMIYA, Jan 18 2014, 04:25 PM.



+ Pointer	Jan 18 2014, 04:27 PM Post #3
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	Sir Brofist Jan 18 2014, 04:24 PM Goku tells Piccolo that Boo seemed happy that an opponent even stronger than him (Goku) would be facing him. Give me a moment and I'll get the direct quote. Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P9.3 Piccolo: “If that bastard felt like it, he could wipe out the entire Earth, up here included, in the blink of an eye…!” Goku: “It’s alright, I don’t think he’ll take out the Earth. After all, I told him that in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him, and he seemed happy…” It is an assumption After they fused in front of piccolo nobody conformed this assumption of Goku I mean goku thought that the fusion would make Gotenks stronger than Him But it is not an actual proof Edited by Pointer, Jan 18 2014, 04:28 PM.



lunar2	Jan 18 2014, 04:29 PM Post #4
Posts: 9,150 Group: Member Member #5,265 Joined: September 24, 2010 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime dragonball/z/gt/movies What Browser do you use? internet explorer or firefox	this is funny, i just had an argument about this quote on another forum. the guy seriously tried to argue that goku was referring to post rosat ssj3 gotenks.
	list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god


EMIYA	Jan 18 2014, 04:30 PM Post #5
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	No, an assumption would imply that a character is saying something that they aren't entire sure about. Goku makes it pretty darn clear that he's sure that Gotenks will be stronger. I again state many times, if there's one thing Akira Toriyama paid attention to, its the dialogue. If AT didn't want Gotenks to be stronger, then he would not have worded Goku's statement in such a way or would have implied in such a way that Gotenks was weaker.



+ Pointer	Jan 18 2014, 04:30 PM Post #6
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	lunar2 Jan 18 2014, 04:29 PM this is funny, i just had an argument about this quote on another forum. the guy seriously tried to argue that goku was referring to post rosat ssj3 gotenks. No Goku just didnt know what will be the outcome of the fusion



+ Pointer	Jan 18 2014, 04:32 PM Post #7
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	Sir Brofist Jan 18 2014, 04:30 PM No, an assumption would imply that a character is saying something that they aren't entire sure about. Goku makes it pretty darn clear that he's sure that Gotenks will be stronger. I again state many times, if there's one thing Akira Toriyama paid attention to, its the dialogue. If AT didn't want Gotenks to be stronger, then he would not have worded Goku's statement in such a way or would have implied in such a way that Gotenks was weaker. Okay that is true But We dont know any feats of ssj gotenks pre... Just the super flyin speed ups double post :\ Edited by Pointer, Jan 18 2014, 04:34 PM.



EMIYA	Jan 18 2014, 04:38 PM Post #8
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	It's the fact that the statement is made (and uncontradicted) that makes it true. It's like when Gotenks Boo states that a fusion of Goku and Gohan won't defeat him. The specific form we'll leave out and just say "Gohkan" in general. This is a statement AT put in the manga to describe that Gotenks Boo is still at a level that Gohkan still probably wouldn't be able to beat (but could still rival perhaps) We don't need to get a feat for this, it would be redundant because if you had to have a feat to prove everything, it would get hectic. We take the idea that Gotenks Boo is correct in his notion because its not contradicted later on in some way. Otherwise without feats, AT would have to constantly add in side notes in his manga saying things like "Boo's statement is true, a fusion of Gohkan would only rival Boo at best." and you know, he just doesn't need to do that. As another example, it would be like asking Cui to show feats that have him at Saiyan Arc Vegeta's level. We don't need that, we infer that this is a truth until its otherwise contradicted.



petewentz	Jan 18 2014, 04:44 PM Post #9
suiteheart Posts: 283 Group: Member Member #10,603 Joined: December 20, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Mononoke-Hime What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragonball	This debate....again. As for the assumption thing....Goku knows how strong fusion made weak warriors. He specifically states it made weak warriors fierce warriors and he knows how astoundingly strong the SSj kids are and he knows how strong Fat Buu is from fighting him... His assumption is a reasonable conclusion based upon evidence. Is it proof that SSj Gotenks WILL beat Fat Buu? No. It is proof that SSj Gotenks CAN beat Fat Buu. Yes. The same way SSj3 Goku can beat Fat Buu. These type of statements allow us to tier our opponents with SSJ Gotenks, Fat Buu and SSj3 Goku being roughly in the same tier at that time. I don't care who's really stronger at that point, just that all 3 are in the same realm of power. For the most part. ^^^That said, I agree with everything Brofist has already posted as well. It's just you don't need to specifically have SSj Gotenks stronger than SSj3 Goku before the ROSAT for him to outclass him after it... Edited by petewentz, Jan 18 2014, 04:47 PM.
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+ Kaboom	Jan 18 2014, 04:54 PM Post #10
Posts: 1,927 Group: Elite Member Member #9,984 Joined: August 24, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga One Punch Man	It was... but only under the false assumption that Goku couldn't beat Boo while Gotenks could. Goku later reveals the he could have, in fact, beaten Boo all along, and with that all bets are off. SSJ Gotenks could very well be equal to or stronger than Boo but still weaker than SSJ3 Goku.



lunar2	Jan 18 2014, 04:58 PM Post #11
Posts: 9,150 Group: Member Member #5,265 Joined: September 24, 2010 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime dragonball/z/gt/movies What Browser do you use? internet explorer or firefox	Sir Brofist Jan 18 2014, 04:38 PM It's the fact that the statement is made (and uncontradicted) that makes it true. It's like when Gotenks Boo states that a fusion of Goku and Gohan won't defeat him. The specific form we'll leave out and just say "Gohkan" in general. This is a statement AT put in the manga to describe that Gotenks Boo is still at a level that Gohkan still probably wouldn't be able to beat (but could still rival perhaps) We don't need to get a feat for this, it would be redundant because if you had to have a feat to prove everything, it would get hectic. We take the idea that Gotenks Boo is correct in his notion because its not contradicted later on in some way. Otherwise without feats, AT would have to constantly add in side notes in his manga saying things like "Boo's statement is true, a fusion of Gohkan would only rival Boo at best." and you know, he just doesn't need to do that. As another example, it would be like asking Cui to show feats that have him at Saiyan Arc Vegeta's level. We don't need that, we infer that this is a truth until its otherwise contradicted. you picked a bad example with gokhan, since old kaioshin stated that even base gokhan would probably be plenty, which contradicts buu's statement.
	list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god


+ Ssj3vegito96	Jan 18 2014, 05:03 PM Post #12
Posts: 10,327 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	I don't remember goku expecting a ssj gotenks. Someone enlighten me I haven't seen or read this part of the series in a while
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


EMIYA	Jan 18 2014, 05:04 PM Post #13
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	I'm referring to the "Fusion" Gohkan not the "Potara" Gohkan. Obviously Potara Gohkan of any form would decimate Boo considering Gohan alone wasn't exactly double digits weaker than Gotenks Boo in the first place and there's none of that "equal powers needed" with Potara. But its clear that Boo is referring to a regular fusion of the two and implementing the specific knowledge he has on fusion and then finally coming to a conclusion.



lunar2	Jan 18 2014, 05:07 PM Post #14
Posts: 9,150 Group: Member Member #5,265 Joined: September 24, 2010 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime dragonball/z/gt/movies What Browser do you use? internet explorer or firefox	Ssj3vegito96 Jan 18 2014, 05:03 PM I don't remember goku expecting a ssj gotenks. Someone enlighten me I haven't seen or read this part of the series in a while goku never outright states that he expects ssj gotenks to fight buu, but it is a reasonable assumption based on 2 things. 1. goku examined their power in ssj, not base, before deciding they would do for the fusion. 2. base gotenks got the tar beat out of him by buu.
	list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god


Alex D. Boss	Jan 18 2014, 07:26 PM Post #15
Posts: 8,688 Group: Probation Member #8,536 Joined: November 8, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	It isn't directly stated that SSJ Gotenks Pre > SSJ3 Goku , but it is stated that the former will be the "stronger" one who fights Boo. Edited by Alex D. Boss, Jan 18 2014, 07:27 PM.



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